Quincy Jones has been around the block a time or two. The legendary producer has worked with some of the most lauded musicians to ever live, and he does not consider Taylor Swift one of them. Not even close.

In a new interview with GQ, the 84-year-old musical icon talks about a wide range of topics, from buying drugs from Malcolm X to admitting to having 22 girlfriends. At one point, the conversation moves to new music and the 28-time Grammy winner is asked who are his favorite new artists. He lists Kendrick Lamar, Bruno Mars, Drake, Mary J. Blige, Common, Jennifer Hudson and Ludacris. The interviewer then asks what he thinks of Swift. His physical reaction to the question is described as “somewhere between disapproval and disdain.”

Read a snippet of the interview below and delve into the whole thing here:

What’s wrong with it?

“We need more songs, man. F--king songs, not hooks.”

Some people consider her the greatest songwriter of our age.

He laughs. “Whatever crumbles your cookie.”

What’s missing?

“Knowing what you’re doing. You know what I mean? Since I was a little kid, I’ve always heard the people that don’t wanna do the work. It takes work, man. The only place you find success before work is the dictionary, and that’s alphabetical.”

So if you were producing a record for Taylor Swift, what would you have her do?

“I’ll figure something out. Man, the song is the sh-t — that’s what people don’t realize. A great song can make the worst singer in the world a star. A bad song can’t be saved by the three best singers in the world. I learned that 50 years ago.”

Plenty of people talk as though Taylor Swift has great songs.

“But they don’t know, man. They don’t know. I’ve come and gone through seven decades of this sh-t. Seen all that. Seen how that works. Ignorance is no thing.”

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